Ep #72: An Interview with Spicy Girl

You are listening to The Midlife Sex Coach for Women™ Podcast episode 72.

Welcome to The Midlife Sex Coach for Women™ Podcast, the only show that combines a fun personality, medical knowledge, sexual counseling, and life coaching together. To create unique sex coaching that helps busy women awaken their libidos, address intimacy issues, and learn how to express their sexuality for the rest of their days. Here is your host, certified life coach and sexual counselor, Dr. Sonia Wright.

Hello, hello, hello Diamonds. You are in for an amazing treat today. I think most of you know that I do group coaching but I also do private client coaching. And I love doing group coaching but I also love doing the private client coaching because we do deep dive, and one-on-one, and we just really focus in on what issues the person is dealing with. And of course I’m a life coach so we look at the thoughts that are happening. And then we do a combination of working on the thoughts and since I’m a sexual counselor as well, I give some practical information as well and we get it done.

And I just love working with my private clients. And they are so motivated and amazing, amazing people. And so one of my private clients has agreed to come and talk to us today and her name is Spicy Girl. And we have been working one-on-one for the last couple of months and just having a great time. And I just wanted to introduce you to her and she is an amazing woman and the work that she has done is just fantastic.

And so I just wanted to kind of share some of the work that we did together, and some of the results, and how her thoughts have changed over a period of time, all those things. And so, Spicy Girl, it’s so good to see you. I’m going to ask you some basic demographic information and then we’re going to get into some questions if that’s okay with you.

Spicy Girl: Sounds great.

Sonia: Okay. So how old are you?

Spicy Girl: I will be 49 in about two weeks.

Sonia: Alright. Happy early birthday if I don’t see you before that time.

Spicy Girl: Thank you.

Sonia: And are you partnered, in a relationship, man, woman, non-binary person?

Spicy Girl: Yeah, I identify as she, her and I have been married to my husband for going on almost 20 years.

Sonia: 20 years, okay, congratulations. Alright. And any kids?

Spicy Girl: Two, a boy and a girl.

Sonia: A boy and a girl, alright.

Spicy Girl: A tweener and a teener, yeah.

Sonia: A tweener and a teener. I definitely know that. I think a lot of you know my baby Jamie is about to turn 10 and oh boy, she’s another spicy girl, maybe that’s why I like the name so much.

Spicy Girl: Exactly.

Sonia: So I’m going to just ask you some questions and we’re just going to have a conversation and just talk about the work that we’ve done and how things have changed for you and your sexual intimacy. So what made you decide that you wanted to work with a sex coach?

Spicy Girl: Yeah. I had had an experience and I’m still in the life coaching program, another coach that went to the same training that you went through at The Life Coaching School. And that work really started to change a lot of areas of my life. And I really was deeply believing in the impact that was having and seeing tremendous results there. But it also allowed me to uncover some other areas in my life that I wanted to work on. And one was my intimacy and relationship with my husband.

Sonia: And so what got uncovered during that work for you?

Spicy Girl: Yeah. For me it was realizing that, well, I guess multiple layers. One, as soon as I became a mother I didn’t realize it at the time but I had sort of turned off that part of me and just started to identify less as a woman and a sexual being, and more as a mom. And again, I think it was over time but looking back it probably happened faster than I realized. And I really enjoy my husband. I want to commit to our relationship. And we’ve done a lot of things to do that.

But the intimacy is one area and we can get into this in a minute, but sex during pregnancy was very painful. And then there were a lot of things that happened after that related to my body. But just again allowed me to frankly just separate my body from my mind and I wasn’t realizing I was doing.

Sonia: Yeah. That is one of the key areas in a woman’s life, or time in a woman’s life where she’s making that transition to motherhood. And there’s a lot going on with her body. And in addition to that, while you’re pregnant there’s a lot going on with your body. And if you have painful sex during that time that’s definitely something that will shut it down. Because your body needs to protect, your mind is going to protect your body. And so it’s going to be like, yeah, libido is not going to be a thing.

And then hormones are raging. Some people, their hormones really – the libido really increases during pregnancy and some people it just completely shuts it down. So you never know what’s going to happen during pregnancy. And then yeah, once you’re becoming a mother, especially for the first time, so much is shifting in your life. And I coach on this quite a bit, that this is a pivotal time in a lot of women’s lives where it shifts. Because suddenly, before that you had more time for yourself.

You had more time for yourself, more time for your partner and then suddenly there is this whole other human being that is 100% relying on you. And usually just the dynamics of things, a lot of the responsibility falls on the women or maybe we choose to have it fall on us. I’m not sure, the dynamics of things, it depends on each relationship. But your body is changing, your hormone levels are changing and suddenly there’s this whole new human being there.

Plus if you’re breastfeeding in postpartum, your body goes into a mini menopause, it shuts that whole system down because it doesn’t want to have another baby right away. So there’s so much going on and you’re right, it definitely can impact. It can definitely impact sex and sexual intimacy.

Spicy Girl: Yeah, absolutely. And I had a very intense labor and delivery that some of the aftereffects of that were continued painful sex. And I guess I never, you know, when you and I were working together, you had used the term trauma regarding that labor and delivery. And it really, it was like a punch to the gut. I had never thought of it in that way. But when I think back to some things that I frankly kind of blocked out and then I was able to sort of resurface those things. It really did occur to me that I’d never processed that.

That it just became something that I was able to ignore and disconnect. And I’m not sure the medical community does a really very good job of helping women in particular, or men, I mean my husband had to witness a lot of things. Yeah, I think he’s blocked out. And he and I have talked about that. But it’s, “Here is your baby, go home, be happy. Congratulations.” And the baby was healthy and I was fine ultimately.

But it doesn’t really allow for a chance to reflect, and catch your breath, and heal. I was healing physically very well but not maybe mentally because I just it in a compartment and closed the door on that. But part of that is also why I just sort of basically from the bellybutton to the knees just sort of turned it off. That just was associated with pain and trauma and so therefore just ignore it.

Sonia: Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing that because for all of our listeners, this is something that’s important. As a doctor I know how we’re trained. We’re trained to make sure that you live. We’re trained to make sure that you’re alive and the baby is alive. And hopefully there’s not a lot of physical damage and then we sew things up and stuff like that. But on the one hand we don’t even process it.

And so we don’t know how to help you process because that’s not something that’s taught in medical school. We’re not taught how to process our stuff. We’re taught that we’re a better doctor if we’re not emotional. So we are taught to compartmentalize that. In some ways if our compartments were open it would just come flooding out. So when you say that you did the same thing that you’re like, “Well, I’m okay and the baby’s okay. And alright, we were told that this is good, and we get to go home now.”

Yeah, we don’t necessarily leave room for that experience. We don’t leave room for the traumatic births. And then there’s not really a place to talk about it either. People will say things like, “My labor was 12 hours long.” But it really doesn’t say all the intrusive things that might have happened during that 12 hours. And so we don’t really get a place to sit and really process what happened. And yes, of course we’re happy that we’re healthy and we’re so thankful that our baby is healthy.

Yeah, if you don’t get a chance to process that and you don’t know what to do with it, yeah, you do end up compartmentalizing it. And as you say, going from bellybutton to knees and just shutting all that down. And not processing, not taking that input because there is probably a lot of input that was going on during that short period of time, coming from that part of your body to your brain and you didn’t know what to do and process it. So just it’s easier for your body, and your brain, and everything to just shut that down and get on with your life because that’s what we’re told.

We’re like, “Okay, I’m healthy, the baby’s healthy, alright, it’s good.” But it can have an impact. It can definitely have an impact on sex because if it was a traumatic birth you don’t necessarily want anything back in there any time soon, of a different way. And that once again your mind is figuring out a way to protect you. And protecting you is kind of shutting down that whole system. And yes, you’re also correct in that your husband didn’t have any place to process.

And I think sometimes when we’re the person going through the thing versus somebody else watching it, it really has an impact on the person that’s watching as well. And there’s definitely no place for partners to be able to come together and sit, and process, and discuss like, “Whoa, a huge football came out of the person I love and they’re still alive. How is that possible?”

Spicy Girl: Yeah, exactly.

Sonia: So yeah, they might block that off too. So there’s a lot that can happen around birth. And sometimes we need to deconstruct it and see how that has impacted or is currently impacting your sexual intimacy. And how do you think that that impacted the sexual intimacy?

Spicy Girl: Well, I think initially it was just something we both weren’t really interested in because of the trauma. And then over time what I didn’t realize was there were still a lot of residual pain related to sex. And it was probably two or three years after my youngest was born that my OB started to ask more questions because during a routine exam, just noticed, it appeared to be more painful than it should have been. And so fortunately the clinic system that I’m part of has a specialty area for sexual health.

And so she referred me into a physician that was highly trained beyond OB work and identified yeah, there was tremendous sensitivity and pain still kind of in that area. And started me on some therapies. That really were notably different and lifechanging. And I, you know, at the time it made me think, well, how many women are experiencing this and don’t have a physician that is intuitive enough or access to this additional training to refer? And that made a big difference.

But I think I used this reference with you, you touch a hot stove long enough, and even when you know the stove is off it still terrifies you to touch the stove. So that was some things that he and I have worked through. We thought we’d worked through and I think just working with you took it to kind of a whole new level where we could really open up and have more honest discussions about everything related to that.

Sonia: Yeah. And I am so thankful that your OB-GYN was aware of the situation. Was like, “This is higher level, a sensitivity of pain than what I would expect.” I applaud your OB-GYN because that’s not necessarily something, that’s a special skill that she has to recognize that. And then the fact that the system that you’re in had the sexual medicine, that’s fabulous. And did you do PT, physical therapy like pelvic floor physical therapy or what did you do in that area?

Spicy Girl: Yeah, that came up. I didn’t end up needing to do that. It was a specialty compound cream that was a testosterone and estrogen cream that has to only be done at certain labs. And we had to special order it. But it was very easy to do. And the other thing that really occurred to me is through that process is how much we just tolerate as women. And I made the decision to lean into it and not that it was inconvenient but it took a little extra time and time I didn’t have as a mother with young kids but I had to. I mean it was just too important for me to take care of myself.

But why did I let it go even that long? It’s something I guess I couldn’t entirely answer. But I think we as women we put up with a lot because we just don’t have the time or the energy to deal with anything outside of the triage that we’re running every day.

Sonia: Right. And then there’s kind of this belief system that when we’re talking about our genitalia or periods and things like that, there’s going to be some level of pain that we have to suck up. So we kind of think that way. And we don’t recognize, okay, this is extreme and I am actually really in pain and I really need to do something about this. And sometimes we’re not heard. And so then if we’re not heard then we just kind of also try and suck it up. And there’s so many places where we could fall between the cracks and not get the care that we need.

So I’m loving the idea that there’s the sexual medicine that was available to you. And for people listening, for my Diamonds listening, I know I’ve talked about ISSWSH in the past, the International Society for the Study of Women’s Sexual Health. Then you can go to isswsh.org. And we’ll put that in the show notes. And if you are looking for a provider you can find a provider in your area on there. They have a section on their website.

So you were able to do the work and what did you have to think? Because you know I’m a life coach, so what did you have to think to make yourself a priority? You had kids, you had probably a job, you had a husband, you were juggling a lot of things. What did you have to think in order to make your health a priority and to do this work?

Spicy Girl: Yeah, I think that’s exactly it, that I had to think, I deserve this. I refer a lot to the airplane analogy, put your oxygen on first. And in a lot of cases if mom’s not okay, nobody’s okay. And not that I think I’m the center of the universe in my household, I have an extremely active partner. I’m very lucky for that. And I also set that up in my house, that was my expectation. If I’m going to have a partner here are the expectations and before, and have children together. So there’s a little bit of you make your own luck in that situation.

But I just was determined that I deserved this and it was an opportunity for me to figure out what was going on. And that was kind of my thought behind it is that I deserve this.

Sonia: Yeah. And I do focus on the thoughts because the thoughts will lead to your feelings, which will lead to an action. And so how do you think, what was the feeling when you had that thought that you deserve this, you need to put yourself first? What was the feeling that came up from that?

Spicy Girl: I think it was empowered, motivated, recognizing that I did have the access to this professional that a lot of people don’t have access to and I needed to take advantage of that. And use that as my opportunity to come up with some solutions. And very committed. I mean part of that commitment was to myself but also to my marriage and my husband.

Sonia: And so how many years ago was that, that you went and you had the treatment with the sexual medicine program?

Spicy Girl: Yeah, I was just thinking. Probably eight or nine years ago, somewhere in there. And it was about a two year process of continuing to go back, checking in again, a little more time with the compound. So it wasn’t a quick fix which they were very transparent from the beginning, which that was another thought I had to say is, “I just need to be patient.” It’s okay to be patient with this.

And I was glad they established that from the get-go that, don’t expect this to be a quick fix. And it was a fairly low time investment in the sense, if you think of two years, going in and using the compound was not a dramatic investment of time but it did require that patience.

Sonia: So that was eight or nine years ago. And so what was sex like in between that time and when you decided to hire a sex coach?

Spicy Girl: It was sporadic. We would go in spurts that were fine and then it would kind of, we’d get busy again. I don’t think we did a great job making it a priority all the time. And we would talk about it and then it would get a little better for a while. I think it’s like anything, you have to work at it. I mean you can’t just exercise for a month. It’s like anything, you can’t just exercise for a month and then say, “Great, now I’m in good shape.” You have to keep working at it.

Sonia: Yeah, I love that analogy with exercise, and sports, and that type of activity, is just recognizing that yeah, you do have to work at this. And I spend a lot of time on my podcast mentioning the fact that you do have to work at this. And that is okay. Society says that it all should be spontaneous and happen right away and blah, blah, blah. No, it does not necessarily have to be that way. So when we talk about things and we recognize that it’s okay if it takes time.

And I love when I’m talking to Spicy Girl because you notice her attitude, patience is going to be important, it’s not going to be perfect. We’re going to work at this. I deserve better. There are all the thoughts that have been in her mind. And then I’m pulling out the thoughts so you kind of see this process is not instantaneous, it’s not something that happens right away. It may take a little time. But the thing is that she’s 49 years old and she’s probably going to live well into her 90s. So that means she has at least 40 plus more years of sexual intimacy ahead of her.

And she’s taken the time to do the work, to invest in herself, in her marriage, in her partnership, in her sexual intimacy so that the next 40 years are amazing. So that’s my question to you, to all of you listening to this call. Are you willing to invest that amount of time if it means 40 more years of great intimacy? And so now we’re going to zoom to the present time. So then you decided you’re going to work with a sex coach. And tell me again why you decided that you’re going to work with a sex coach?

Spicy Girl: Well, I saw the benefits of the life coaching program I was involved with. And so I really bought into the concept and the belief system of it. And then my life coach introduced me, I had asked her specifically about that. That was an area I wanted to dig in a little bit more. And she had referred me to you, which was great. And part of it is we’re at a point now where we’re starting to think about our life as empty nesters.

And we committed about three or four years ago to seeing a therapist off and on, not because we needed to fix anything. But because we wanted to be proactive about it, which our therapist loved. She enjoyed our sessions because it was much more positive and hopeful than she probably sees all the time. But we didn’t want to be that couple that woke-up one day with the kids out of the house and kind of looked at each other like, who are you again. I can see where that is very easy to do.

You get into busy lives with kids and it comes to a screeching halt and then all of a sudden you realize the only conversations you have are related to who’s driving who, where, and what time is the game, and what time is this? So we had started working on our kind of emotional connection and making sure that that stayed healthy. But I think we kind of kept ignoring the intimacy. And so when I realized there was even someone out there like you.

I mean we didn’t have a great experience with the sex therapist after, that was referred to us after the medical treatment that I went through. It was kind of cheesy, for lack of a better term, we just didn’t appreciate her approach. It wasn’t us. And so we kind of gave up on that concept which was not a great idea. But then once I discovered you I realized some of it is also me having to heal myself. And then before, again, put my oxygen mask on first so I can take care of me. And then he and I can work on that together.

Sonia: Okay. So you started working with me. And when you came to me what was the main problem or issue that you wanted to focus on?

Spicy Girl: Yeah. The goal was to get to a much more regular natural cadence of intimacy with my husband. And I think you use the term a lot, to do list sex, I think, is that how you? And there was more of that going on than I wanted it to be. And not that I necessarily after almost 20 years of being together expected it to be like it is in the movies. But wanted it to just be less about that to do list and more about just having that stay top of mind in our relationship and not just fall by the wayside in these time chunks that just neither of us want that but it just would happen.

Sonia: Yeah. And so many women come to me because it is to do list sex. And it’s on the to do list right after taking out the trash and it’s kind of like, my partner’s going to complain. We haven’t had sex in two or three weeks, or two or three months, or two or three years. And they’re like, “Could you just help me want to do it more frequently?” And my response is always, “No, what’s in that for you?” Let’s figure out, what are you getting out of this because that’s not what I’m going to do, I’m not going to be like, “Okay, let’s figure out how to make you do this two or three times a week.”

I’m going to be like, “Well, do you get pleasure out of it? Do you like it? What could we do to make this more pleasurable and fun for you.” I can, yeah, I could take your money and I could coach you for a period of time and then send you out in the world. But if I don’t help you figure out how to make this better for you, something that you enjoy and like, then what good am I as a coach? I haven’t helped you in any way. So that’s not where I come from.

So yeah, I’m quite sure the first thing we did was, okay, I know you want to do this more often but where is the fun in it for you, let’s talk about this. And did you discover the fun? What happened?

Spicy Girl: Yeah. We are definitely in a much better spot. And I think part of it, you know, you had given me some ideas of things that he and I could talk about. And for both of us, I think he is not necessarily the stereotypical male which I know is probably not fair. But he and I both need to feel emotionally connected before we can feel physically connected. And having those discussions that maybe we had been avoiding really did spark a whole different level of intimacy for us. And some of it too was releasing some of the shame.

And I think you helped me normalize what I had experienced and what he and I had experienced. And I think like a lot of things, whether it’s addiction, or sex, or religion, I mean name all of the topics that if you don’t feel like you’re in the norm or what society tells us is normal, or what TV and movies tell us is normal, then there’s something wrong with you. And it was really nice for me to sort of start to release that. And then he and I could work together on releasing that shame that came with it.

Sonia: Yeah. The shame, nobody wants to talk about things. It is that hot stove. There’s the physical hot stove of pain but then there’s also the emotional hot stove and I would call that shame. You don’t want to talk about something if you’re in a place of shame. And the problem is, is really the movies and porn. I don’t think porn’s an issue but specifically when they show this stuff where everything’s spontaneous and people are hopping into bed. Like Bridgerton where it’s two seconds later and they’re on the ground and all their clothes are off.

Yeah, maybe that happens in the first couple of months of anybody’s relationship. But that’s not what gets sustained, we call that new relationship energy. And then over a period of time it shifts into a different type of libido, a different type of rhythm, a different type of intimacy. And so if we continue to think that it has to be this way, hot and heavy, and instantaneous, and spontaneous, and all that stuff. Then we do start getting into a place of shame. But if we recognize wherever we’re at is okay, and we can work on making it better in whatever way.

And it stops that huge white elephant in the room where nobody will talk about stuff because they think it’s supposed to look like this, and it’s supposed to be like that, and it doesn’t look like that and it leads to that shame. Yeah, so a lot of the work I do is normalizing things and looking at people’s thoughts, why do we think this is? Why do we think that this is bad? Why is there shame with this? Let’s look at this.

And then you can get to a place of where you’re okay being vulnerable and you can have those conversations. So what were the main conversations that you would have, the topics that you’d have to talk about with your partner?

Spicy Girl: Yeah. I think, what is important to you? What level of commitment are you willing to put into this? Are you willing to be a little uncomfortable to get more comfortable? And we did talk a lot. We had a whole evening where we talked about the day our son was born and what happened that day. And how much he had blocked out and what that did for me emotionally and physically that I didn’t even realize was happening. And so we had to kind of go backwards to go forwards again.

And I don’t think I realized some of the things he’d experienced that day. I don’t think he certainly didn’t realize the long term impact of this for me. And then I think you do a really nice job of talking about all the different lifestyles that people choose. And it’s been, that for me has been really eye-opening, I guess I never thought of myself as being naïve. And it created some interesting discussion of what we both view as how we want our relationship to be and we were very aligned and that felt really good.

So yeah, it’s been fun. And what do you like about this? And what do you not like about this? And it’s just opened up much more communication.

Sonia: Yeah, it’s fun working with you because I give you homework and you’re like, “Oh, that just sounds so good.” And then you get into it with gusto, and you have the conversations and you process something. And yeah, even if non-monogamy is not for you, you would still ask the question so that you could learn and open your mind, and decide, and then have the further discussion with your partner. And see, “Hey, is this something that you’re interested in? How do we want our relationship to be?”

Instead of just doing the relationship that society says is supposed to be there, you actually worked together to create the relationship that you want, and that you’re committed to, and that feels right for you. And having that conversation, it’s really what it’s about, getting to know your partner. Because you’re changing a lot and your partner’s changing a lot too over time. And having those discussions and kind of getting to know your partner again, it’s kind of the joy of this work as well, yeah.

Spicy Girl: Absolutely. I think the other really important work that you’re doing, at least inside the program, and I think you do it in some of the podcasts as well is really getting women to think differently about, let’s say being over 50. I’m just throwing that out there because I’m staring down the barrel of 50 here pretty soon. But I think in general medicine and our society has not done a good job of seeing women as sexual beings after that age. I mean we’re not, you know, women aren’t in the movies at that age as much as they are when they’re younger.

And then you have the other physician that you work with who talks a lot about post-menopause and how for so much of the medical community, they just sort of figure, well, now you’re shut down so don’t worry about sex anyway. And gosh, that never occurred to me and yet I probably had all of these unconscious biases around that. And it’s great that you’re opening people’s minds up to that. And it certainly has had an impact on me to think differently because I’m not sure before meeting you it would have occurred to me that I could still be 90 and having sex.

And that’s to your point, you make the commitment to it, you do the work for that long term investment versus just thinking, well, I guess there’s no Viagra for me so [crosstalk].

Sonia: Yeah. The best Viagra is going to be in your mind. Yeah, and then continuing to make sure your vagina and your vulva is healthy. Make sure there’s estrogen cream going to your vulva and estrogen going to your vagina. That’s the vitamin E for your sex that you’re going to be having in the future. And then also it’s your mindset.

You get to decide what sexual intimacy looks like for you when you’re 90. It’s not my way or the highway, it’s not just penetration or zero. There’s so much fun to be had in terms of sexual intimacy. And honestly, I love sex as I get older because it gets more creative and more fun. You get to explore your body. You’re not as worried about things and you have fun. This is why I love doing this work. So I love what you have to say about over 50. And you’re looking down that barrel of turning 50. Come to the other side, I can definitely tell you it is so much fun over here.

Spicy Girl: I think there’s a confidence that comes and why should that only be in certain areas of your life? Why can’t it be in all the areas that are important too?

Sonia: Exactly, yeah. I mean if you recognize that it might take a little bit more work, things might have to be adjusted and your body’s not going to look like it did before and it’s not going to act the way it did before when you’re 20. And that’s okay. But it gets to be the way it is now and you get to have a lot of fun. You get to have a lot of fun exploring your body. And I know that some of the work that I did with you where I was encouraging masturbation, and self-pleasure, and learning more about your body because it’s going to continue to grow and change as you age.

And you need to understand what stimulation helps it. And your partner needs to understand that about your body changing as well. And it also gives your partner permission for their body to change as well and for them to explore their body, and what they like, and what their interests are. So it’s just this fun evolution. And you get to experience all of it.

Spicy Girl: Absolutely. And I don’t think that self-pleasure and masturbation is talked about enough in women and girls.

Sonia: Yeah, definitely not, yeah.

Spicy Girl: And it is, I think you’ve alluded to this too, it becomes very shameful, I think, for women but for men it’s sort of a badge of honor.

Sonia: Yeah, I mean little boys, everybody that’s a mother of a little boy, that thing is their best friend from day one. And it’s just like, boys will be boys, he’s feeling up his penis. But if a girl feels up her vulva, we don’t even have a word for it. One of the things that I do in my group is I spend time asking, “Did you hear the word ‘vulva’ growing up? Well, what did you?” And there’s so many names for it, like pocketbook, and the tata, there’s so many names for the thing.

Spicy Girl: So true.

Sonia: Or it has no name, it’s no name at all. He who must not or she who must not be named. There’s just no name at all. And respects that there’s a level of shame around it and that there’s a lack of permission to explore and learn about your body from a young age. And it’s something equally, if you have a little boy and he’s feeling on his penis, you’re like, “Yeah, that’s fine, that’s part of your body, just go in the bedroom, that’s a private thing, come out when you’re done. Please wash your hands.”

So we don’t say that to little girls. We don’t say, “Yeah, that’s part of your body, well, go have some fun. Wash your hands when you’re done.” But if we could just be that nonchalant about the whole thing and so that they’re not seeing or feeling any shame. But if we go, “Ah, don’t touch that.” Then from a young age they’re afraid, they’re like, I did something wrong, mommy’s upset. They’re upset, I can’t touch that area. And then you go around for the rest of your life, it’s a part of your own body but you don’t even know what it looks like.

You’ve never said hi to your vulva. So that’s what this is about. I’m like, “Go say hi, go find a mirror, go look at your best friend. That’s your pleasure zone. Say hi to her.”

Spicy Girl: Right, exactly. And be comfortable if there’s something wrong to ask.

Sonia: If there’s something wrong to ask and keep asking. I think that it’s interesting because men don’t necessarily ask. They don’t necessarily go because they’re like, it’s so tied to their identity, if there’s something going on with their penis. Women, it’s kind of like we are so disconnected, it’s almost like men are so connected to their penis that they can’t deal if anything goes wrong with it. We’re so disconnected from our body and we don’t even recognize that we really have a vulva. And we don’t really recognize the pain that’s going on, we just kind of suck it up.

So it’s going on for both genders and for all genders. But yeah, if something’s not right, go look at your vulva so you know what it looks like at baseline. And so if you’re having pain, or irritation, or something, to be able to talk to your provider and say, “Hey, it looks red, it feels inflamed. I’m in pain. I don’t normally have pain with this, this, this.” Yeah, but we do need to know our body. And you’re right when you talk about from the bellybutton to the knee, that’s kind of ignored. And so we just kind of block off the signals that is coming from that area.

Spicy Girl: Absolutely, and what we’re willing to tolerate is quite funny as women.

Sonia: And what we’re willing to tolerate, yes. So what do you think are the biggest shifts that you’ve had during coaching in terms of things that have improved in the sexual intimacy?

Spicy Girl: Well, I think getting more comfortable with my body that’s changed over the years. And the kind of waking up that area again and seeing it as part of me and the whole me and embracing everything it’s been through. And that it’s okay to be a mom but also still be a sexual being. And to enjoy that part of the relationship with my husband. And it is taking time, it’s not something that will happen overnight and that is something we will keep working on. And that it is a priority to both of us. And that we both can make it a priority for ourselves and for each other.

Sonia: Yeah, I love so much about that, yeah. You are a woman. You are a sexual being. You are a mother. You are whatever your profession is. You get to be so many different parts of you. And we don’t have to shut down. It’s not you’re a mother or you’re a sexual being. You’re a mother and a sexual being. Yeah, so we get to choose those. And we need to recognize that we get to be all of it and that’s okay. And I love how it’s impacted your relationship and your life. And it’s just beautiful, it’s just beautiful.

So what do you think your partner would say about this work that you’ve done?

Spicy Girl: Well, I think he would say that part of it did make him feel uncomfortable. And that he learned that by leaning into that discomfort we got to a better place and a more comfortable place with it. Because he didn’t grow up talking about this in his house. I did a little more but he definitely didn’t. And so it’s been good for us to kind of get this out there and start leaning more into this part of our relationship and being committed to it. So I think he’s very happy we’re working on it. And that it’s something that, again, we have to keep coming back to.

I think of going to the chiropractor to get alignment. It’s sort of continuing to go back and get the alignment. And continuing to lean into discomfort in ways that maybe we wouldn’t have if we hadn’t done this work, that creates some really fun conversation and fun possibilities.

Sonia: Yeah, definitely. Definitely fun possibilities. I’m excited for your future because really everybody think that it’s about the sex in bed. But in all actuality it’s about the ability to communicate. If you can communicate about anything, if you can communicate about the hard stuff then it’ll be okay, whatever happens it will be okay. It’s when we get blocked by shame or we can’t do the hard conversations, that’s when it breaks down and that’s when the problems arise. But they can always be fixed and you can always have a tune-up.

So thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed. I really appreciate it. It’s fabulous working with you. And I wanted my Diamonds to know some of the work that I do with my private clients. So thank you so much for being agreeable and willing to come and talk about all the fun things that we do, alright, Diamonds.

Spicy Girl: Thank you for what you’re doing. I mean I do think that I have referred you to so many people to get on the podcast. And I get really fun notes from people saying, “Wow, I never thought of it this way.” Or “She’s really opening my eyes to different things.” And so this is important work and you have the impossible goal of – I can’t remember, impacting the sex life of millions of women or something. Keep going because even if it’s only one woman at a time, I think you don’t really always know the reach that that person and how many people they have told.

And you may never fully know the impact of your work but keep doing it, please because it’s important.

Sonia: Thank you. Thank you so much for saying that. Yes, I’m shocked when people come up to me and they’re like, “Oh my goodness, I listen to your podcast and you saved my marriage.” That’s what I wanted, I wanted to help in whatever way I could with people’s partnerships, and their relationships. And for women to tap into their own sexuality and to see the joy that’s there. And for all of you Diamonds listening on this call, it just really gets better, and better, and better.

Our society wants to think that we are dead at 50 or something like that. But it’s really only the beginning. So thank you so much for being on this call, Spicy Girl. Thank you so much, Diamonds, for listening. And it’s really just been a pleasure.

Spicy Girl: Thank you for having me.

Diamonds, have you wanted to work with me in a small intimate group? Well, this is your last chance, at least for probably a year or so. But it’s not too late. If you’d like to join us in the OYSN Intimate Edition which is a small group of committed women that want to work on their sexuality and dive deep into whatever intimacy issues are going on in their lives, then this is the program for you and I am the sex coach for you of course.

Come join me, Dr. Sonia, as we do the work together for the next 90 days. Click on the link in the show notes and look and see if this is a right fit for you. We would love to have you join us. The women in this group are amazing and I’m just so excited about the work that we’re going to be doing over the next 90 days. Come on, join us, we would love to have you. Diamonds, Dr. Sonia out.