Ep #221: Becoming Cliterate – Book Club Part A: The Pleasure Gap

You are listening to the Midlife Sex Coach for Women podcast, episode 221. Hello, hello, hello, Diamonds. It is so good to see you. I am excited about today’s podcast. First of all, welcome back, my dear Diamonds. Today’s episode is something really special because you’re going to get a behind the scenes experience inside the Diamond Intimacy Collective. This month inside the collective, We have been reading the book Becoming Cliterate by Dr. Laurie Mintz, M-I-N-T-Z, PhD. And let me just say that the conversation is powerful, it’s eye-opening, honesty, and really it’s necessary. I chose this book because I feel like it should be the foundation for every woman when it comes to her sexuality, how she wants to express herself. how she wants to claim her power and her pleasure. And so as we start this, I just wanted to make sure that I was able to like give this to every one of my diamonds and also so that you would kind of get a sneak peek of what it’s like inside the Diamond Intimacy Collective. Really, for far too long, women have been taught a version of intimacy that centers on performance rather than pleasure. So.

What I’m doing is I’m gonna be splitting this into two parts because it’s over an hour long. So we’re gonna be having two parts. So In this first part of our live book club discussion, you’re going to hear us begin to unpack the truth behind pleasure. We’re gonna talk about the pleasure gap. We’ll talk about anatomy, also myths that have been taught about orgasms and how knowledge becomes empowerment in the bedroom. This is real unscripted. It’s an honest conversation between women who are learning to prioritize their pleasure within the Diamond they are prioritizing their pleasure without shame and without apology. So as you listen, I want you to lean into something that I call intimate curiosity. And we’re going to talk more about this, but No judgment, no pressure, just curiosity. What resonates with you? What surprises you? What might be ready to shift as you’re listening to this? Okay, diamonds, let’s dive into part A of Becoming Cliterate Book Club.

Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Hello, Diamonds. We are here for the Diamond Intimacy Collective Book Club, which I love. And ⁓ this month, we are talking about Becoming Cliterate which is one of my favorite all-time books. And I wanted to start this book, the book club, with this book because I feel like it’s a foundational revolutionary book that every woman should know, understand, have in their bookshelf or on their audible or whatever, whatever way they have it. But it redefines how we look at sex, sexual intimacy, how we look in terms of women’s right to pleasure and takes the focus off of penetration sex, which, you know, hey, I love penetrative sex. That gets me fine. But we also need to redefine sexual intimacy in whatever way works for that person, for that individual. And so ⁓ if you are a female with a clitoris, then I think it’s important to understand the importance of your clitoris and the functionality of your clitoris and how it impacts your overall sexuality and pleasure. 

Because so often we are taught a narrative where everything is about our vagina. And that vagina is cool. I love our vagina, my vagina. It’s great. And at the same time, I’m laughing here because 40 Spice is like shaking something like, yay, she has her flames in her heart things. But at the same time, we need to recognize, yeah, our vagina is lovely. But also as a society, we have been conditioned to focus so much on our vagina to the extent that we don’t even focus on our clitoris. And so we need to this understanding that, one, we need to understand our anatomy and we’ve not been given that opportunity. A lot of women have not been given that opportunity. And so this is one of the books. That’s why I like this, but because it really does discuss anatomy and we really do get an idea about, wait, like the… analogous structure to the penis is actually the clitoris. It is not actually the vagina because a lot of things will make it such that ⁓ men have penises and women have vaginas, right? That’s not actually completely correct. Men have penises, women have clitorises. That’s what’s analogous. That’s what is similar. And then they also have vaginas. 

And there’s this whole neural network of our vulva and we’re really talking about our vulva. I’m like, where is my vulva puppet? Sorry, just gotta get my vulva out for a second. This whole concept of the anatomy of the vulva is amazing. And to understand that our pleasure center is actually our vulva and not as much our vagina, we have not been taught this. And so that is why I think that this book is important. And so,

I have invited all of you here to discuss this book and to discuss the concepts in this book and just to share in my joy of this book. So that’s where we’re at here. And I figured that we were just kind of, we can have an overall general conversation. I’ll just kind of start with some concepts and ideas, which I kind of already did talk about them, ⁓ but we can go chapter by chapter.

Or we can just like whatever idea comes up for you. Like, why don’t we just start with what was the your favorite thing or most important thing that you got out of this book? Like, how is that going to impact the sexual intimacy in your life? So if anybody wants to just and feel free with the book club, you can come off your mic and unmute and just say something or you can also put it in the chat. Do be aware that if you say something, this is being recorded, so it kind of will shift over to your face or your name or whatever. just be aware of that as well, which is not a big deal, but just I want to make sure everybody’s aware of that. So my question to you was, what is it that you loved about this book? How did this reframe concepts for you around sex and sexual intimacy or just your take away or anything that you’d like to?in there.

You want to something? Here I do. I always got something to say, but I also try to be patient and let other people speak. But while the rest of you are thinking about what you want to say, because we’re coming to you next, I think I want to, what was kind of, I, you

it’s quite the revelation, ⁓ is the notion of, well, How much the idea of penetrative sex being the definition of sex has really, but I can own that for myself, but I suspect it’s just so much broader, the whole, has for so long driven sex. Not pleasure, the behaviors, right?

And I think this is new information for many women about the role of the clitoris and that her not orgasming doesn’t mean something’s wrong with her, but there’s a ⁓ focus that needs some attention and deserves attention. ⁓ And so, and it’s not even you’re doing it wrong. It’s just that

your needs are tended to in a traditional approach to sex. Yeah, you know, that is an amazing point that you’re talking about here, right? What is our definition of sex and sexual intimacy? Why has it been shifted so much that it’s all about penetration, right?

Why is there not like a larger concept and definition of sexual intimacy? And now it’s kind of interesting that in the book, they talk about this, that 60 something percent of women will define oral sex, somebody going down on them as sex, whereas men will only define it as like 30%, right? And maybe it’s from our perspective, right? Like oral sex, women will get an orgasm from that. So that to them, it gets defined as sex.

And also they’re sharing their body, they’re interacting, they have a concept of sex. Whereas ⁓ for a lot of men, sex is not sex unless there is some penetration and a penis being put somewhere, right? Which is not good or bad or saying that, you know, but it’s interesting that we have different concepts of what sex is and even defining it like such that somebody would be like, no, I did not have sex with that woman.

And somebody else would be like, yes, I had sex with that person. And it gets to be based upon ⁓ how we define sex and how we can, under oath, how we can define it. So this is something that we need to recognize here, that even the concept of sex and sexual intimacy is not one that we all take for granted, or we have one definition or one concept about.

But it’s kind of like from the moment of contact, from touch, like to like all the ways that it plays out, that gets to be defined as sex, right? Like we call something foreplay and that’s kind of like before, before sex, foreplay. And some people are trying to rush through it as fast as they can to get to like the penetrative part. And other people are like, wait, wait, this is my sex. Let’s not rush through it.

because this is where I get my orgasm from, right? So, this is my appetizer. This is my main course. This is my entree. main course. I just happen to like salads. main course is a salad. I really enjoy it. And your main course happens to be the steak over there. And that’s okay. I’m vegetarian. And you’re

and everybody gets to eat at the table. Everybody gets to have fun with this, right?

And if we look at what’s happened and where this concept came from, definitely we can go back to Freud. And some people say, and in the book they talk about this, like the nail in the coffin concept of, ⁓ like he put forth this theory that clitoral orgasms were immature orgasms.

And as a woman went from being a girl for that transition from being a girl to a woman, her orgasms were supposed to change from the focus being on clitoral orgasms over to the focus being on vaginal orgasms. Now, the interesting thing about this and, and like, who does this benefit? Right? She was getting great orgasms over here with her clitoral orgasms, but now there’s this whole concept that says, no, no, no, that’s not the right kind of orgasms. It’s interesting that nobody’s saying to penis owners, that’s not the right kind of orgasm. We can’t suck on your balls. You know, we can’t do that. The right kind of orgasm is one that involves a penis in a hole somewhere, right? And then the best kind is involving a penis in a vaginal hole.

So like, there’s all these definitions, but like, A woman is able to have an orgasm. It’s a great orgasm for her. And now we label it with shame. Now we say this is immature. This is not the correct kind of orgasm. You’re no longer a child. You’re now a woman. And so you need to figure out how to have a vaginal orgasm. And if you can’t have a vaginal orgasm, that’s your problem. But you’re still going to call sex vaginal penetration and that’s where we’re going to be. Does this make sense how we’ve kind of shifted this? And when we look at that narrative, you know, she’s talking about the fact that with heterosexual sex, like 95 % of men are having pleasure and only 60 something percent of women are having pleasure or having orgasm, right? So first you shifted this narrative to make the kind of orgasm that works for her wrong.

and tell her that it has to be a vaginal type of orgasm. And then like if we’re talking about penetration alone, about 15, 10 to 15 women, percent of the women can have a vaginal orgasm without some clitoral stimulation. But you took away the means to have ⁓ an orgasm by saying the clitoral orgasm is not correct. We don’t have to stimulate it. We don’t have to be focused on that.

let’s instead be focused on the vagina. And if you can’t have an orgasm, it’s not my fault. It’s your fault, right? And so the level of shame comes there. And then with that level of shame and somebody like whacking away for a period of time, and then you’re like, okay, can we get this over with? And so then there’s an inclination to be like, ⁓ that was fantastic. and to get it over with and stop, right? And this is how 60 something percent of women, only 60 something percent of women in heterosexual sexual encounters versus 95 % of men are having the orgasm and the pleasure. So this is how it gets set up. And then it becomes that place where kind of more of an emphasis put on one person’s pleasure over another.

one person’s pleasure is optional and the other person’s pleasure, they get to have that. Yes, Sporty Spice, what you got? So this does bring in, right, I think ⁓ the need for conversation, which now people probably start getting nervous about, part of the book is about not wanting to make them feel bad. have a friend who shared with me 

10 years ago, as I think about the times and maybe it was only eight, but anyway, had been married ⁓ for almost 40 years at that point. And ⁓ we got in a conversation about this. And so she just, we were working together. And so we walked back into a corner. She’s like,

I’ve been married all this time and never had an orgasm. Now my guess is that has not changed over the last eight to 10 years. ⁓ Because then she would be challenged with, then I’ve been either lying or just going along with it for 38 years and I don’t want to make him feel bad. And if he’d feel bad after one year,

He’ll really feel bad now. ⁓ But being able to broach the conversation because it sounds like to me that men need to be part of the conversation as well. Like introduced to that conversation because for those who…I they are providing pleasure, but art because we’re going along with it, many of them want to provide that pleasure. So, how do we begin to broach the conversation? ⁓ Because it sounds like there’s a whole paradigm shift that both sexes need to have, like ⁓ all partners need to have, every human needs to have that’s interested in sex on any level.

to help manage expectations. How do you broach that conversation? Yeah, so it looks like Sensual Healer wants to talk to us. Yeah, so some thoughts about that. So I think one of the things that was brought up in the book was when you broach those kinds of conversations that Sporty Spice is talking about, when you have those conversations, that they can go way, way, way left because the person who is the penis owner usually they’re offended because you’ve been faking all this time, not really taking into consideration. The faking has been to make you feel good, penis owner, right? ⁓ And it was to protect you. It was not necessarily a protective factor for

the woman who is the clitoris owner, right? So I think there’s a fine line between having the conversation about how can we change the way that we interact sexually. And I’ve been faking orgasms for 38 years. Like more than nuance, but that’s the only way that comes to my mind around those kinds of conversations because it can go badly. And it can really, really change the trajectory of the sexual relationship with folks. So I think there just has to be a strategic way to approach it. Yeah. And I would agree. Like what you’re talking about, Sensual Healer is like bringing in this element of additional shame. is the possibility of additional shame for the woman that’s saying this.

And then also for if it’s a, partner happens to be male or whatever partner it is, like that they’re like getting the shame around, I’m not a good partner. I’m not a good lover. And she’s been faking it all this time. So I think part of it is coming at it a different way and saying, you know, like she can say, well, I’ve been faking it or she can say, you know,

I’m realizing I’m not having the kind of pleasure that I wanted. I mean, I have been having some pleasure, but I’m realizing my body is shifting and changing. And I’m really focusing on what our relationship is going to look like in the future and wanting to enhance it more. And I think a great way to enhance it is for me to do or for us to work together to do more in terms of bringing the focus to my pleasure as well. As my body is shifting and changing, I’d like to explore that more. our society gives a narrative that we’re supposed to take and people being offended and shame and anger and all those things. And that is optional. We can decide that, okay, I’m hearing something and maybe it does hurt. You can have whatever feelings you want, but then we need to make sure the focus is on what do want the outcome to be in this situation.

Do you want the outcome to be that we continue together and we figure it out and we have amazing sex? Or do we want it to be that we both withdraw into our corners full of shame and we no longer talk about that and we continue to have the sex that, and then you don’t really continue to have the sex that’s not really fulfilling because at some point you’re just like, I’m opting out of this kind of sex. then, nobody wins. Treasure, what do you got to tell us?

Yeah, I haven’t exactly delved into the book like I would like to, but I love the concept. I love this conversation just around healthy conversations about sex. I mean, from the perspective of maybe being a participant, not even knowing that I was within these categories.

I think, you know, initially you don’t look at it as faking. think more so you don’t even know that you’re in the construct, you know, experiencing it all with your pleasure not being prioritized. And, you know, now, now these conversations are coming up for me at least, these new introductions of conversation. Sex has been such a taboo conversation. A lot of folks haven’t been in the realm of sharing. as things are now. So I’m excited about these conversations. ⁓ I would say what could also help in this realm could possibly be involving a coach of some sort, ⁓ an intimacy coach of some sort or intimacy counselor of some sort. I’ve actually explored that avenue a bit and it’s been helpful just to kind of understand that.

You know, your pleasure should be prioritized and it’s okay to advocate for yourself in that way. Yeah, 100%. And that’s why I have an intimacy coach too. That’s why I like that at the top of my list, Is to make sure. And that’s why I have a podcast. Like, that’s why I have a newsletter. as many ways as I can get the word out and I’ll be starting up stack at some point in time, like just continue to. get this word out and let people know. You know, you make it like a really great point where you’re like, I don’t even know that I’m part of this narrative. didn’t understand that because I am doing what society has says is the definition of human form, right? I’m making sure my pleasure and I’m getting some and it’s kind of fun. So that should be good enough, right? And I love in this book, there’s an example that Laurie Mintz makes, which is water.

Like she talks about if ⁓ to explain the situation to people that are not quite aware of it to women or just people in general and she’s like what if you have a partner and they ask for a glass of water and so you’re constantly getting them a glass of water all the time. You’re going and you’re going to the cupboard, you’re getting the glass, you’re filling it with water, you’re giving it to them and when you ask for a glass of water after like 12-13 times

He’s like, ⁓ maybe not really. I’m kind of busy playing my games over here. I really don’t have time for that. Like this concept that you don’t see it or you don’t understand it. But if it’s put in the context of reciprocal kind of situation where you would just assume, somebody that loves me and wants to be engaging with me in a relationship or whatever, they want to go get the glass of water for me. And if I have somebody that consistently

I’m getting the glass of water like 12 times a day and maybe they might give me a half a glass of water once a month or something like that. Then you start to see, wait a minute, do I wanna be in this kind of relationship? Not saying that you want to lead the relationship if we’re talking about sexual intercourse, maybe this is a great partner, but nobody is aware of what’s actually happening here. And when you put it in the context of like, getting a glass of water or something like that, you kind of start to see it a different way. And then you’re like, ⁓ yeah, I would like somebody to get me a glass of water more often. And your partner’s like, my goodness, like I haven’t been getting that glass of water, you know? And so it’s a different way to look at it. Sometimes when we’re talking about sex and you’re right about this, Treasure, like our conversations are taboo. So we don’t talk about it as much, right? When it’s around sex.

But we’re okay talking about a glass of water. We’re okay looking at a relationship and saying, like, if I drove my partner to work every single day for the month, and maybe once in a while, they would drive me to work once a year or something like that, then we’d start to see, ⁓ this is not balanced, right? And what we’re talking about is a pleasure gap, but we don’t even see the pleasure gap because society says essentially, not in so many words, but,

it’s okay that that gap exists. And so if everywhere you look, kind of like reflects that there is going to be this pleasure gap. And ⁓ it’s, and then we shame the woman or we say it’s the woman’s fault that she can’t have a ⁓ orgasm because she’s supposed to have an orgasm with penetrative sex. Then she starts to cover up stuff cause she’s feeling shame and she doesn’t say, Hey, I need that glass of water every day or whatever. Like, then she’s like, I’ll just go get my own glass of water,

All right, my beautiful diamond. If you love this conversation, if something sparked inside of you, if you found yourself saying, wow, I’ve never heard women talk about intimacy like this before, then I want to personally invite you into the space where conversations like this happen all the time. The Diamond Intimacy Collective is my private community for midlife women who are ready to reclaim their pleasure, deepen their connection, and step into their most empowered comfort

self-confidence cells both inside and outside the bedroom. So inside the collective we have monthly book clubs just like this one. We have live Q &A calls and we also have coaching and we also have our pajama party which is just girl talk. We get together on Saturday morning. You wear your pajamas or sweats or just whatever you want and we talk about all different things and we have a great time. Intimacy education the way you were never taught. And it’s a supportive community of women who are walking through this journey right along with you. You don’t have to figure this out you don’t have to stay in a place of confusion or silence or disconnection. Your pleasure matters. Your voice matters because you matter. So if you’re ready to take this work deeper, come join us in the Diamond Intimacy Collective. The link is in the show and I can’t wait to see you and to welcome you there. Take care. Dr. Sonia out.