Ep #90: Empowering Conversations: Consensual Non-Monogamy

The Midlife Sex Coach for Women™ Podcast | Empowering Conversations: Consensual Non-Monogamy

We are culturally programmed to be monogamous, but it doesn’t always make sense for people. It isn’t the only way, and there may be other equal or even better ways for people to live than to follow that roadmap. We get to look and decide what is for us, and many people are exploring alternative non-monogamous relationships.

Last week, I spoke to you about ethical non-monogamy and I’m so excited to take this conversation further this week, with an empowering conversation with Mindful Mike. He joins me to talk about consensual non-monogamy, his experience with it, and why it could be a viable option for people looking to open up their relationships.

Listen in this week and hear what consensual non-monogamy is and the various types of activities it can include. Mindful Mike shares his journey with consensual non-monogamy, how he went into the process of opening up his marriage, what he believes are the foundations of it, and his advice to anybody looking to open up their relationship.

I am personally inviting you to check out my OYSN! Intimate Edition and join women of all ages to learn about your body, express your sexuality, and do things on your terms. Group sessions start on June 1st, so if you want to change what’s happening right now in terms of sexuality and intimacy, take control of your life and create a new direction for your future, it is finally YOUR time; click here to join now. I can’t wait to see you!
What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
  • Some factors that have been important for Mike to discuss with his partner along his journey.
  • How rules can sometimes cause a lot more problems than they solve.
  • What compersion is and how it might show up for you.
  • Why Mike prefers to use the word “consensual” when referring to non-monogamy.
  • How what might work for one triad or group might not work for another.
  • Why polyamory isn’t a way to fix something that is broken in your relationship.
Listen to the Full Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:

You are listening to The Midlife Sex Coach for Women Podcast episode 90.

Welcome to The Midlife Sex Coach for Women™ Podcast, the only show that combines a fun personality, medical knowledge, sexual counseling, and life coaching together. To create unique sex coaching that helps busy women awaken their libidos, address intimacy issues, and learn how to express their sexuality for the rest of their days. Here is your host, certified life coach and sexual counselor, Dr. Sonia Wright.

Hello, hello, hello Diamonds. How are you doing? I hope you’re doing well. I am so excited for this episode but I have to say the audio is not the best but it’s such a good empowering conversation that I’m having with Mike about non-monogamy that I did want to make sure that my listeners, my Diamonds, could hear this and get a chance to listen to this podcast. So, I apologize ahead of time that the audio is not super. But I hope you will still get some great information from it. Okay, enjoy.

Hello, hello, hello Diamonds. I hope you are all doing well. I am pretty excited for this episode. Last week I introduced the concept of unexpected requests from our partners. And this week I wanted to follow-up with that with a conversation with Mindful Mike about consensual non-monogamy. He definitely knows more about it than I do and so I requested that he come on and talk to me. And it’s not really much of a long introduction but we’re going to talk about consensual non-monogamy today.

And just some things to take into consideration and how it might affect marriages. And just additional information that might be good to know. So, I’m going to ask Mindful Mike to say hi to us all.

Mike: Well, hello Dr. Sonia, it’s lovely to be here. I’m excited, a little nervous but excited.

Sonia: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk to us all about consensual non-monogamy. So, my first question is, what exactly is consensual non-monogamy and why do you use the word consensual as opposed to ethical non-monogamy?

Mike: Well, that’s a lot. Well, consensual non-monogamy is essentially any type, but it’s an umbrella term, any type of non-monogamous relationship where all parties are aware of the arrangement and agree to the arrangement. It can go anywhere from swinging, to permanent living arrangements with people living with three, four people in an intimate relationship. And it’s yeah, kind of an umbrella term. I like to use the word ‘consensual’ as opposed to ‘ethical’ just because ethics are sometimes hard to define.

And you can be in situations where you have difficult situations where it’s a couple of choice and none of which feel 100% perfectly easy or ethical. I think it also kind of sounds a little high and mighty, but for some reason it’s superior in some way to other relationship forms. And I don’t think that’s the case.

Sonia: Right. And so how many years have you been involved in consensual non-monogamy?

Mike: Well, this time around going on seven years, about six and a half years with my current married partner. Early in my first marriage, my ex and I participated in something like that, that we didn’t really have a term for. And it was a little closer to swinging at that point, it was a fairly casual arrangement. So, kind of on the swinging end of the spectrum. But yeah, so this time around it’s a much more mature experienced adult, pushing seven years.

Sonia: Yeah. It’s kind of interesting how people can be in different phases of consensual non-monogamy. They may start in a one night stand or a swinger phase and then over time with experience or the different people that they’re involved in, they can have different types of relationships. So, I think that that is something that’s interesting about consensual non-monogamy. In terms of how did you, when you eased into it or how did you get into it this time around? Was it something that you and your partner were intentional about or did it just happen?

Did you make plans ahead of time? How did you go into this process of opening up your marriage? You said it was a marriage, correct?

Mike: Correct, yeah. It was somewhat intentional. I think we still kind of lacked enough information and knowledge to do it more gracefully than we did. But I had been married almost 25 years and met my new wife very shortly after my divorce. And even she recognized that it would probably be a good idea for me to do some other dating. So, this is even before she and I got very serious. We were just kind of like, let’s not move too fast. We took things pretty slow. And even before getting married we had talked about potentiality for opening up the marriage at some point.

Along that same time, we’d started socializing with a group of people among them were a number of polyamorous or non-monogamous folks. So, we became exposed to it through social circles. So, we talked about it and decided to take that step. Again, I think we, like a lot of people, a lot of couples, or even singles, we made a few errors along the way but you learn as you go and hopefully nobody gets hurt too badly in the process. And I think we’ve done pretty well with that. We’ve been pretty successful in not burning bridges, not making enemies with people.

Don’t mean to focus on the negative at all, but there is a potential, when you’re trying out something new, to do it less than artfully and to hurt other people along the way which is something we need to be very careful about.

Sonia: Yeah. I think that that’s definitely important. So, if you and your partner, or somebody else that’s listening to this podcast is thinking about opening up the relationship, what are some important things that you would tell them to focus on? And would you tell them to focus on it beforehand, or during the opening up, or after, or at what point does it become important?

Mike: Well, I have recommended to people because I’m involved in a number of Facebook non-monogamy groups that are not dating focused but are educations, thought focused. And I have recommended to people, first of all do some reading. There’s a couple of good books out there. I wish there were more but there’s a book called More Than Two, another one called The Ethical Slut. Those are good books to read. Read those together and read a chapter at a time and discuss what you liked, what you didn’t like, what kind of turned you off, what made you worry.

At that point you’ll probably think you’re ready to roll, but you’ll probably still go out in the world and make some mistakes, but that’s the nature of being human and of a learning process. But yeah, I think definitely the reading is good. And then maybe, join a support group or seek out some polyamorous or non-monogamous folks just to learn from, with no dating intent in mind. And just ask them about their history and how they got where they’re at, and what kind of bumps in the road they ran into.

Sonia: Yeah. I think that that’s important to do some research ahead of time. People have concepts of what it’s going to be like. They often think that when they get involved in consensual non-monogamy that it’s a lot of sex and it may be. If you’re on the spectrum of the swinging side of things and the one night stand, and the friends with benefits type of things. Then it might be more sex. But if you are more on the side of the polyamory and that puts a focus on loving relationships it may involve sex or it may not involve sex.

But if people come into consensual non-monogamy from this perspective that it’s all about sex, they find that it’s not necessarily. It’s about so much more and it can be very enriching whether they choose to have these stronger bonds or not. But I think it is something that people should not jump right into but spend some time learning about and learning what is kind of okay and what’s not okay. And each relationship has its own set of structures and rules. And so, what might work for another couple or a group triad or whatever may not necessarily work for you.

So, it’s good to kind of have an idea ahead of time and spend some time seeing as to what the structure might look like before jumping right in. But there is also the jump right in and sink or swim and figuring it out as you go. And sometimes that’s what happens as well. So, your partner is not here today. She had other things that she had to take care. But does she have any thoughts or any opinions, or anything that she wanted to add to the mix?

Mike: Yes. Well, absolutely. I mean we talk about it and I’m sorry she couldn’t be here. And I’ve really come to strongly identify as I’m the polyamorous end of things. It feels right to me. It works well for me. She’s a little bit more ambivalent. We’re in a really good place but she’s never been, I think a 100% convinced that the primary relationship won’t suffer somewhat under polyamory. I don’t feel that way. I think I’ve done a good job as a partner of making sure that she’s always a priority.

There’s many ways to do that, protecting your couples time and whatnot, being very important. But yeah, so I guess it kind of remains to be seen what the future holds. I think early on there is always the fear that somebody will meet somebody new and special and lose interest. And I just, I don’t see that happening with us because we’re so committed to each other and so very much in love even after 12, we met 12 years ago. And we don’t have jealousy issues. We’ve gotten past all that.

Early on, like a lot of couples, we instituted a lot of rules and then as you get more comfortable you start easing up on rules a little bit on things like overnight stays or out of town visits and things like that with another partner. And she’s in some ways very focused on her career at this point. And this is one of the big positives about many relationships like ours. She’s in these last seven years has become a lot more career focused. In her first marriage there were things she wasn’t able to do because she was raising three small children and later as a single mom, raising those children.

So, things like putting off her master’s degree, which she has completed over the last few years. There’s things that she’s just decided she wants to focus on more now than relationships as such. She’s still very comfortable with some things that a bit more casual. And I don’t mean that in the sense of one night stands or sleeping around. But because she’s just not that so much interested in the effort of building relationships as much as I am.

I’m kind of late in my career and kind of doing it on autopilot to some degree and looking forward to a little bit of early retirement and transitioning. And I have time and energy, I’m more of an extrovert than she is when it comes to social situations. So, it just really works well for us. She’s one of those people that works 60 hours a week or more and I pretty much clock out after my 40. I have a lot of free time and I like to go out and do things with people.

Sonia: Well, I think that that speaks also to maybe the dynamics of a relationship that where you know the people involved. So, some people, it sounds like you’re more of a romantic individual and more of a connections person, and more of a get out and you are extroverted. Which generally means that you get stimulation, and excitement, and energy from making connections and being out there with other people or with people, just more people, more than one type of situation. So, it would lend itself to more likely to be involved in consensual non-monogamy.

Whereas somebody that’s introverted and wants to put their focus on their career or something that they’re not as into making tons of connections and things like that. Maybe they don’t necessarily need or are interested in consensual non-monogamy. And that’s okay as well. But do you think that there’s a personality type that is more interested in consensual non-monogamy than another?

Mike: I really don’t think so. And so, I was more introvert than my partner and I’m actually probably an ambivert or even leaning on the introvert side, just not so much as she is. And one of the things it’s enabled me to do, exploring this way has enabled me to really kind of come out of my shell a little bit and gain a lot more confidence in my social skills. And I’ve gotten much better at making connections and making friends, forget the romantic context for a moment, just making friends, period. I’ve gotten much better at that.

As far as personality types in the community, I don’t know. I think it’s all over the place. There’s a lot of nerds in the polymerous community and the CNM community, a lot of younger folks that are into gaming, and Star Trek and things like that. I’ve aged out of that a tiny bit but never was my thing. But maybe, yeah, I think they’re all over the place, introverts, extroverts. There’s a big overlap between polyamory and the kink community, and swinging, and all these different variations on the consensual non-monogamy theme.

And there’s all kinds of different people, there’s a lot of tattoos and piercings, and but then there’s other folks that could pass for an uncle.

Sonia: Yeah. So, it definitely is interesting because all different types of people are interested or are involved in consensual non-monogamy. And I think you did touch on a point that more and more people are getting involved, if we look at the different generations, like the millennials. There’s 30 to 40% of people in surveys have said that they’ve been involved in some sort of consensual non-monogamy within a relationship or external to a relationship. Whereas I didn’t ask you specifically how old you are and how old your partner is?

Mike: Well, I am almost mid-60s, let’s put it that way. My partner is still in her 50s.

Sonia: Yeah. So, it’s a wide range of people. So, people in their 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s and definitely 70s and beyond. I mean I’ve encountered all different types of people. But I do see that there is kind of this, the younger generation do tend to be gamers, do tend to be more on the science fiction, nerdy kind of side of things which is an interesting element that comes into the consensual non-monogamy community. So, there’s a number of different areas of interest.

I’d say there seems to be a propensity of engineering brains, logic kind of brains as well. So, there’s different people that are there which I kind of find amusing and fun since I’m a big nerd.

Mike: Well, your point about logic is a good one because I think a lot of people that have explored this have just sort of not had an emotional reaction necessarily to what a relationship is or should be. But thought through it logically and find a logical reason that, you know, we’re culturally monogamous in this country, extremely so. But it doesn’t always make the most sense with the divorced rate as high as it is and whatnot. And a lot of cheating that goes on, people getting hurt along the way.

There’s some folks just step back and say, “There’s maybe a better way, or at least there’s other equal ways to try to live that don’t follow that roadmap.”

Sonia: Yeah. I love that idea that there’s many different ways to do this. It doesn’t necessarily have to be one way. And we get to look and decide is monogamy for us or possibly to explore a different way. And whatever choice a person makes is a fine choice. But if we just have this reaction where we’re like, “No, it’s only monogamy that works, and it’s only heteronormative relationships that work”, and things like that. Then we might miss out on different opportunities.

So, when along the process for you in terms of opening up, what were some important factors that you thought that were important for you to discuss with your partner along the way with this journey that you’ve been on?

Mike: Oh my gosh, which one, the first one is the sexual safety in both avoiding STIs. So, setting rules, and habits, and trusting each other to follow those rules. It just, early on everybody tries to put a tight fence around relationships and specify. In fact, a lot of couples will start dating together, either dating another couple or dating a single person. I think that’s usually a bad idea for a number of reasons. If it happens organically I think that’s fine, but if people are trying to find a safe way to open up, it always, not always but it often ends up being a more complicated situation than they expect.

So, what are those guardrails? What are those rules you’re going to put in place especially early on to make both partners feel comfortable? But at the same time leaving enough freedom to explore. And it can be a challenging time in the CNM community. There’s a lot of folks that won’t date newbies because they don’t want to get involved in potential drama and people with their polyamory training wheels on. And they don’t want to be part of that. The part in the middle that matters is the partner. So, it can take a little while to get your bearings and meet people.

But your question was about, yeah, things to think about. I mean, yeah, it’s rules, safety, and most of all the rules are either about safety or protecting the couple, or just general safety.

Sonia: Yeah. And I think a very important aspect of it is the communication. So, I’m hearing underlying all this stuff that we’ve been talking about is the communication, keeping the lines of communication open and figuring out, you might start with rules and then I think most people get to this point when they realize that rules don’t specifically work. And that they can cause a lot more problems than help. And so, kind of more like guidelines and just open communication, and processing, and talking through.

What do you think is important when the issue of jealousy comes up? So, within the culture there’s often people kind of have this sense that they should be above jealousy. But jealousy is just a normal emotion. And so, we get to feel that emotion and we get to decide even though we’re feeling that emotion, it’s not necessarily a reason why you should not do consensual non-monogamy. It’s a reason to kind of look at the situation and figure out what’s going on. Is there something that’s being triggered because of the consensual non-monogamy?

And kind of people have this concept that you should feel compersion. So how would you describe compersion? And then I’ll ask you more about jealousy.

Mike: Sure, compersion, yeah, it’s not even a dictionary word I don’t think. It’s used in the polyamory community to describe taking pleasure in your partner’s pleasure. It’s actually being happy that your partner’s having an experience that does not include you. Yeah, because you have feelings for that person, you want to see them be happy. It’s not natural for a lot of people but it’s, yeah, it’s that finding pleasure in someone else’s pleasure. In terms of jealousy, jealousy, I think, and I’m no therapist but to me it seems kind of like a secondary emotion. It’s usually really a fear.

So, a person needs to ask themself, what is it I’m really afraid of that’s triggering this jealousy? Am I afraid my partner’s going to leave me? Do I think this person’s better looking than me, therefore I’m going to lose my partner’s interest? But in general, in the community, the line that is repeated all the time, is it jealousy, it’s your problem to resolve. I need to own my own jealousy and not as you said, it’s not necessarily my partner’s problem. My partner’s not making me jealous. My partner’s doing something, I’m feeling jealous.

Why am I feeling jealous? I need to examine that emotion and get to the root of it. And some people can resolve it, others can’t. I’m not a naturally jealous person so it’s always been pretty simple for me.

Sonia: Yeah. I’m not a naturally jealous person too but I can’t say that I haven’t experienced it. And then when I’ve experienced it I usually stop myself. And first I have to be like, what am I feeling? What is this sensation? And then I’m like, what is it that I’m thinking about myself that’s lacking that makes me go to a place of fear? So, I usually find jealousy kind of an interesting emotion just because I learn more about myself and what my thoughts are.

And so even though it’s not one that I specifically experience much in terms of romantic type of things, it’s still something that can be very informative and not necessarily a bad thing to experience because you learn more about yourself. So definitely I agree about that.

Mike: Right. Sometimes it’s just a fear of missing out. It’s not so much that you’re angry at your partner or jealous at your partner who’s engaged in something that you don’t want them to be experiencing. It’s like you wish you were there too. So, you have to really kind of divide those things out in your mind. What is it I’m really, is it my partner went to my favorite restaurant with somebody? That might make me feel upset. But if we hadn’t had an agreement that this was our special place and we don’t do that then it’s just my own problem. It’s my own issue to figure out.

And of course, communication, getting back to where we started is everything. If you want boundaries, if you want things to be special, you need to state them and agree to them.

Sonia: Yeah. And also recognize that it is a process that we grow and learn as we do this process. And so maybe you don’t necessarily have it at the beginning. And then something happens and then you’re like, oh, wow, this is pressing my button, let me work on it. And then also let me talk to my partner about it. So, it’s something that changes and evolves over a period of time. And I like to think of non-monogamy in terms of it’s not something that you’re missing in your primary relationship so it’s making you go somewhere else.

It’s more like and this and that, an enhancement type of thing where you get to just have a different experience in your life.

Mike: I agree a 100% with that, yeah, it’s the logical side of it says, no two people can be everything for each other. Now, some couples, they’re enough, they meet enough of each other’s needs, that they can say to themselves, I don’t really care if she doesn’t like to go fishing with me, I’ll go fishing with somebody else. But in other instances, there’s just room for growth, and adventure, and things that your partner does not want to do with you

And I have a wonderful close friend and occasional partner who more often that not we just go out and listen to music together and it’s jazz primarily. My primary partner’s not so much into the jazz so it’s just beautiful. And there’s opportunities just to try new things, and meet new people, and put some adventure in your life. That said, the idea that polyamory’s going to spice up a relationship or fix a relationship is absolutely wrong. So back to advice, if your relationship isn’t solid now it’s a good way to end it.

Sonia: Yeah, that’s what I say too. It’s a way to end it really fast.

Mike: Sometimes it’s almost an exit strategy. Let’s both try dating other people and then within a year they’re living with those other people or what have you. So, I don’t know that the divorce rate’s any worse in consensual non-monogamy. I suspect it’s not as high as with monogamous relationships. But I don’t have any statistics but just from what I’ve seen. But yeah, you can’t use it to fix what’s broken. And if you can’t communicate now in one relationship, just imagine trying to do it in two or more.

Sonia: Yeah. No, it takes time and effort to do consensual non-monogamy. It’s not about hopping into bed all the time. It’s about so much more. So why would somebody want to engage in consensual non-monogamy? What do you think that it has added to your life and to your relationship, your primary? And some say primary but then there’s people that believe in more along the line that they don’t believe in hierarchy. So, I should say what do you think consensual non-monogamy has brought to your nesting relationship and what do you think it’s brought to your life?

Mike: Yeah, I do like that better. I’m a little shy about primary and secondary although having a married live in partner sort of forces some primacy. I’m not sure I can speak for her although we’ve certainly both made friends and experienced things we wouldn’t have. But for me it’s just been a real adventure. A lot of it’s been certainly an expanded sex life which has been important to me. But in many ways it’s just being with different people and allowing yourself and this may sound phony and I don’t mean it that way but allowing different versions of you to come out.

You find you surprise yourself when you spend time with different people. You can learn, you discover things you didn’t even know you were interested in until you spend time with somebody that’s not the 24/7 partner that you’ve historically been with. It’s certainly made me a tremendously better communicator. I know she would agree with that too. We just don’t have problems and fights at this point in time. We’ve just learned how to, when something’s on our mind and just get it out there quick. We don’t mope around the house and be passive aggressive about it.

We just say, “Hey, this is a problem, let’s talk about it.” And it’s just been brilliant. Now, when we started we were talking every day, I mean literally every day after work we were talking about where we were at and what was going on. That’s because there were some struggles early on. And then one day we finally woke up and said, “You know, we don’t talk about it anymore.” And that’s, I think when we realized we’d kind of found at least a place of mostly equilibrium. We still make adjustments from time to time.

But the fact that it’s just become normal life for us I think is a really good sign. I think that’s where you hope to be but you don’t lose those communication skills along the way, they’re important every day.

Sonia: Yeah. I had a question and now my brain, it’s gone. It was a really good question too. I know what the question was.

Mike: The best question ever.

Sonia: I have two questions, one was, okay, so you woke up one day and you realized you weren’t asking all the questions. How long do you think that took before you two got to that place?

Mike: I wish my memory for time was better. But less than two years anyway, maybe a year. And it probably, I’m assuming it’s slowed down. We’ve gotten out of the habit but for a time we would ride our bikes. We have a great trail system nearby and we would ride our bikes after work every night and that was what we were doing was ride side by side and just talk, talk, talk. Go take a walk, the same thing, just talking. But yeah, it’s probably inside of a year.

Sonia: Do you think it brought you closer together?

Mike: I do, yes.

Sonia: Yeah. Well, a lot of talking, communicating and checking in with each other and how each other are feeling and such. It seems like it can make a stronger bond and a healthy and a good relationship to begin with. My second question to you was, your name, Mindful Mike. So, do you bring mindfulness into this at all?

Mike: Well, that’s been something that the last three or four years I started practicing mindfulness, meditation. I initially did it primarily for anxiety control. I historically had a lot of just generalized anxiety, work stress. And dwelled too much mostly on the future, worrying about the future more so than dwelling on the past. But both of those things, mindfulness, meditation, they try to train you to avoid. And I think it’s just, the secondary benefit was it’s helped me manage relationships better and understand my feelings better, not dwell on things.

Also just being present, one of the things you don’t want to be doing is you’re with a partner and you’re thinking about another partner. Or you’re dealing with, your mind is somewhere else. Mindfulness helps you be in the moment, in that place with that person. I think it’s been very beneficial for that. I think there’s a lot of Buddhist concepts that anybody would benefit from in relationships. But I think even more so in plural relationships because you just have that many more dynamics and that many more conversations and more commitments, more to juggle.

And so, you need to find an effective way of doing that without stressing yourself out and making yourself and other people miserable.

Sonia: Right, well said, thank you. So, my last question is are there any last things that you would like to – advice you’d like to give concerning a couple that decides that they would like to open up a relationship?

Mike: Two things and I should write both of them down because I’ll forget the second one, probably already have. So as soon as you start opening up, here’s where things get tricky, now you’re involving other people or another person. And so, rules and all these things are wonderful but once, especially if you’re on the polyamorous spectrum where feelings are allowed and accommodated. First of all, you can’t make rules that nobody will fall in love. You can’t do that. I mean you say you’re going to do it but it’s either going to happen or it’s not.

So, it’s something that you accommodate, or you can’t put a rule around it saying, “You’re not supposed to have feelings for anybody but me.” It’s just not going to happen, even if it’s potentially a more casual relationship, anything could happen. But the point I think I was getting to was that once you get past the point of reading books and getting out there and you’re starting to date, now you’ve got other people and their feelings involved. And that’s where things can get really, you know, you need to have ethics and compassion for the other person.

Because suddenly you bring somebody else into the relationship and then as a couple you decide this isn’t for you anymore. Well, now you’re breaking up with somebody, you’re doing it with somebody else that may have feelings. So, it’s just be cautious, move slow, make sure. Probably the best thing to do is move at the pace of the slower of the two of you in terms of who’s got the most concerns and wants to exercise the most caution. Rather than pushing that partner to move too fast. You maybe want to move at the pace of the slowest partner.

But yeah, I mean just you’ll probably make mistakes. But go slow and realize there’s other people’s feelings involved. And the other thing was, yeah, I do remember now. And I think I sort of touched on it briefly is couples often will decide to limit what they see as risk to the couple by dating one person together or another. Do a little research on that, I don’t think we have time to dwell on it tonight, but do a little research on what they call unicorn hunting.

There’s nothing necessarily unethically or perfectly unethical about two people dating the same person. But trying to force that person to fit a mold because you have a rule that says that person needs to spend equal amount of time with us or always be with us together or blah, blah, blah. You’re treating that person like a commodity, not like a person. Plus, you can’t control whether that person might develop stronger feelings for one of you than for the other.

So yeah, that’s where, if it happens organically, there’s many successful triads and quads and things. But typically, they didn’t develop because somebody was seeking that typically it happened organically and that’s why it’s successful. They all met in the wild and just, they just worked out that way. So that’s something I’d say be very cautious of.

Sonia: Yeah. So, I think that you bring up a good point and you’re right, we won’t dwell on it too much. But basically, Mindful Mike is talking about if you and your partner decide that you want to actually go out and find a third person for a triad where both of you would be dating them equally then you should research a little bit more about unicorn hunting and couples privilege, and what that dynamics it. And to be informed about it before you make these type of decisions.

And then I would also add in, research the one penis rule which I think is ridiculous but it’s also out there as well. And so, I put it out there that no, right now any women that are involved with a male partner that puts down a one penis rule just tell them no. Just solve that problem right away. Alright, but I don’t want to end the podcast on the one penis rule.

I would prefer to end it on another note which is basically, yeah, if your partner comes to you with this request or you would like to go to your partner with this request, it comes down to communication, and processing. And nobody having veto rights but just processing, and talking, and deciding, is this something that’s right for me. And if you choose to try it, give it a try.

If it doesn’t work for you as Mindful Mike was saying, it took him and his partner a year of communicating and talking to make sure that they’re both on the same plane and that both of their needs and concerns were being heard. And it is definitely a lot about communication but I’m also hearing that it can really enhance a person’s relationship. And so, to consider if that’s something you’d like to engage in. It’s not for everybody and that’s okay and there is many different ways to do this.

So, thank you so much, Mindful Mike for being on the podcast today. Thank you for giving us much to think about. And Diamonds, I will see you all next week where we will have more unexpected requests from partners. Okay, take care, good to see you.

Diamonds, how is your sex life? No, really, on a scale of one to ten how is your sex life? You know I’m all about the intimacy in midlife. If you rated the intimacy in your life less than an eight then we need to talk. I’m personally inviting you to check out my Own Your Sexuality Now intimate edition course. We just finished the January cohort and it was on fire. Women of all ages from 35 to 65 were learning about their bodies and expressing their sexuality and doing it on their own terms.

Couples who had not had sex in years found a new level of sexual intimacy and fun and they reestablished that connection. Other women learned about their bodies and tapped into their pleasure zone. Another one learned to set boundaries and focus on her pleasure for the first time. One more Diamond got the independence that she needed to change up her whole life.

Own Your Sexuality Now is not just about sex, it’s about empowerment, and of course, pleasure. And right now, we’re enrolling a new group which starts on June 1st. Come join an intimate group of women for the next 12 weeks and literally change your life. Let’s create that amazing, satisfying intimacy that you deserve. If you’re in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s then this is the place for you. You potentially have 30 to 40, even 50 more years of intimacy ahead of you. What do you want that to look like?

Let’s get real and talk about what’s going on with your body, your libido and see what we can do to kickstart that intimacy again. This program is for you whether or not you are partnered. If you’re single, if you’re partnered, if you’re in questionable status, whatever your relationship status is, this is for you. If you’re a woman who wants to enjoy all aspects of her life then this is the program for you. It finally gets to be your time.

And did we mention that we have added in relationship coaching? So, you get an additional four bonus group sessions with a relationship coach. You’ve really got to join us. So, click on the link below in the show notes or on my website at soniawrightmd.com and join me in Own Your Sexuality Now, the intimate edition. I can’t wait to see you. Talk to you soon, Diamonds.

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Sonia Wright MD

Hi, I’m Dr. Sonia Wright and I’m YOUR SEX COACH! I’m on a mission to end the pain and isolation associated with sexual difficulties and to help women create satisfying sex lives.

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